E15 Repair and Upgrade

We Can Rebuild Them, We Have The Technology.

E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby DH1 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:30 pm

I picked this tractor up yesterday for the purpose of rebuilding it with a modern controller and charger.
I originally bought it a while ago in a 4 tractor package deal, found out last week it was up for sale and decided to buy it back.
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It was made July 28 1970
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It comes with a factory cover and no attachments.
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Thanks
Doug from Markham Ont, Canada
EGT200 x2, E12, E12M, E15, ET2
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby DH1 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:49 pm

From what I know and have seen this tractor is in better than average condition in terms of rust. I has a few small rust holes in the rear battery box, everywhere else it's solid. This is why I bought it as it does not need a lot of body work or rust repair.
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The wiring however is a mess, cut tapped wires, broken missing relays, plus ???
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My intention is to rebuild with 6-6 volt batteries, the Alltrax controller from the Electric tractor store, a Foot Throttle and a Smart Charger.
I figure it's going to cost about $1800. by the time it's done, 1/2 of that will be the battery pack.
I want to do this in a way that it looks like an old GE tractor that has had modern electronics put in it.
The parts that are removed will be saved, some might fit my E12??? the rest are in unknown condition as this tractor does not run.

I'll be looking for advice, tips as I go alone and this is going to take a while as I have too many projects on the go.
Anyway I got to start somewhere so now I have.
Thanks
Doug from Markham Ont, Canada
EGT200 x2, E12, E12M, E15, ET2
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby roberttroll » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:41 pm

DH1 wrote:
My intention is to rebuild with 6-6 volt batteries, the Alltrax controller from the Electric tractor store, a Foot Throttle and a Smart Charger.
I figure it's going to cost about $1800. by the time it's done, 1/2 of that will be the battery pack.
I want to do this in a way that it looks like an old GE tractor that has had modern electronics put in it.
The parts that are removed will be saved, some might fit my E12??? the rest are in unknown condition as this tractor does not run.

I'll be looking for advice, tips as I go alone and this is going to take a while as I have too many projects on the go.
Anyway I got to start somewhere so now I have.


OK here are my ever evolving thoughts on controllers in these machines... I built my own control setup using a curtis, so i cannot say much about the alltrax except for what i have seen..

First bench test the drive motor. Check for shorts. Yes a shorted motor will run!

If you can, think in 3 dimensions. I ended up making a small platform that fits on top of my curtis controller. I put my main control wiring there. The control wiring that i installed is not needed with the alltrax as the field/armature control is built in.

Room is an issue with any controller. Make yourself a template of the back of the dash and test fit things. I found that it is easier to just fabricate a single rear dash plate (instead of the two piece one). Hinge it at the bottom.

If you are going to go through the process of installing a controller, i have found it cheaper and easier to completely re-do all the wiring. If i were to use the alltrax i would not re-use any of the original control system. The instructions that come with the alltrax are for a retrofit. I think the only reason that some of the original GE design is retained with the alltrax is so you have a PTO safety.

There is an easy way to get rid of the control cards to give you a PTO safety. Without having any of the original GE cards. All you need to do is add a momentary switch to the PTO ckt and set it up as a self-latching relay.

Foot control will be easiest because the units are all in one ready made. Hand control needs to be fabricated unless you want to use a simple round pot. However i prefer the hand control.

For added room under the dash completely remove the the 12v system. I put all of the 12v wiring in the front of the tractor behind the grill where the resistor used to go. I use the front pack for my 12v feed.
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby DH1 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:38 pm

Thanks for the info Robert I intend to start from scratch.
Today I removed all of the wiring. If anybody wants these 2 circuit boards or cards there yours for shipping cost.
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I notice some differences that have been discussed here before.
1 - Hood has 2 cross bars
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2 - Power use meter has a shunt instead of a length of wire and it appears to be adjustable.
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I also gave it a bath with the pressure washer and in now has less yellow paint on it.
I use a rotating 0-deg nozzle with hot water in a 120volt pressure washer, works great.
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Question the decal on the dash. is there a replacement for it or should I do what I can to save it?
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Thanks
Doug from Markham Ont, Canada
EGT200 x2, E12, E12M, E15, ET2
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby roberttroll » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:16 pm

Drew out a simple diagram to show you the self latching relay configuration which you can use as a PTO safety. This micro relay is used to power the PTO COIL.

I am using small 36v micro relays. I have the relay tucked inside the upper dash panel where it fits nicely. However you can use any 36v solenoid or SPST relay. I have also added a PTO light to the ckt so that when the PTO is on I have a visual dash mounted indicator.

The way this works is quite simple. The micro relay coil is powered off of the main solenoid. You use your Elec-Trak PTO switch as you regularly would, however you you need to add a momentary switch. To operate your PTO you toggle your on/off switch, then hit the momentary switch. This powers the coil and the ckt becomes self sustaining. If power to the tractor is lost in any way (safety switches ect) the ckt powers down. When tractor power is restored, the operator is required to again engage the momentary switch. PTO can also be turned off at any time by using the stock on/off switch.

I might get a video up of it in operation later on this week.

relay.jpeg
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby FarmallMan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:09 pm

Doug, I'd be interested in the printed circuit boards. I'll send you a PM if they're still available.

I know I've bought the dash decal before - I think I bought them from Jim C, but I'd bet Harold has them too.

Nick 8-)
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby Bushman » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:21 pm

Isn't the PTO circuitry just fine the way it is? I don't think you have to mess with it at all, as the seat switch and key switch are all part of the circuit, and the switches were all Off-On-Momentary. I believe the switch itself seals in the PTO contactor and any opening of the seat/key switch disables the circuit.

I believe Jim Coate has some of those dash stickers new.

I would love to have those cards for just shipping cost, Doug. Although, I think Nick beat me to it, along with the comment about the dash stickers. Darn it, lol.
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby roberttroll » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:18 pm

Bushman wrote:Isn't the PTO circuitry just fine the way it is? I don't think you have to mess with it at all, as the seat switch and key switch are all part of the circuit, and the switches were all Off-On-Momentary. I believe the switch itself seals in the PTO contactor and any opening of the seat/key switch disables the circuit.

I believe Jim Coate has some of those dash stickers new.

I would love to have those cards for just shipping cost, Doug. Although, I think Nick beat me to it, along with the comment about the dash stickers. Darn it, lol.


The switches you mention are ON/OFF/Momentary ON. For this you need ON/OFF and a separate momentary if you want to maintain the ability to turn off the PTO without turning off the main tractor solenoid. You could just use the momentary, but you would have to shut the machine down to kill the ckt. Think of it like this. You are cutting your grass. You finish up and turn the machine back towards your garage. If you just have the momentary then you need to turn the machine off to have the PTO disengage. With a separate ON/OFF you simply switch the PTO to off while still moving.

The alltrax installation instructions assume that you are doing a transplant, not a clean install. If doing a transplant the original return-to-neutral ckts are retained. Anyone gutting their machine is left to figure it out for themselves. This was the easiest way i have found so far of duplicating the RTN while using a modern sealed relay. And i like having a PTO light on the dash. Don't know why that wasn't a standard option.

For a clean alltrax install you will only need a main solenoid, one main fuse or breaker, and one or two smaller relays. I say one or two because one would be the RTN, and the second could be a relay for the 12v system if you so desired. No cards, nothing else needed. Original safety switches and key all control the main solenoid.
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby FarmallMan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:09 pm

Unless I'm mistaken, the RTN circuit is part of the E15 control card. Any upgrade to an E15 would result in needing a RTN circuit for the PTO. The E8 and E10 used the three position switch (with momentary ON) with just the PTO contactor to do this. No need for the extra relay. I attached a drawing to illustrate the principle, but you can always refer to the Homeowner's Service Manual for the original schematics.

The diode is important to make sure you're not powering the implement through the switch in the time it takes for the contactor to seal in. Here's a link to the switch: http://electrictractorstore.com/index.p ... ucts_id=56

Nick 8-)

PTO Circuit.jpg
PTO RTN circuit adapted from small frame controls design
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Re: E15 Repair and Upgrade

Postby Bushman » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:56 pm

I forgot... the RTN circuit does run through the card on an early 15. Therefore, no relay to use. However, it's extremely simple to replace that PTO switch with an Off-On-Mom and wire it in as Nick stated, eliminating the need for two separate switches. Nobody really uses the seat switches anymore for RTN of the tractor itself, and the brake switch is trivial, so you mostly only need RTN for the PTO.

Multiple ways to accomplish the same thing, but simplicity always wins, hence these earlier models being transformed into much, much simpler control schemes for later models. Personally, I love the E16/E15HA scheme and even though I run a B-145 mostly, I find it to be sort of weak. E14, B-145, EGT120 are all the same and as simple as they get.
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